Leaderboard

Because cute girls cute

There is a lot you guys have discussed already but I'll just share my thoughts as well. I agree with Darksymphony777 on the reason for the high amount of NSFW content. This is probably due to the fact that nearly anyone can use the property as they wish. The japanese law also contributes a lot and I understand SasaMisa to an extent too. Personally, I'm not interested in any of that stuff. I'm enjoying touhou for the music and cool characters. I think my enjoyment would die if I decided to focus on the NSFW content. However, that shouldn't mean no one is allowed to check that stuff given how much there is.

Hell yeah brotha.

Lax regulations, big cast, girls, etc. Keep in mind this happens with literally every piece of media that exists and will exist though. Personally I used to be very anti-horny few years ago but as the years passed I just, whatever. Hell yeah booba. Also like I said in another thread big distinction between cute and/or sexy, and nsfw. The art in that fangame is just so overdone that it loops back to being funny for me honestly.

Hello. It seems like I accidentally angered you, for which I am very sorry. I don't know where you got the feminists part from (I am a dude), especially since in my country the feminist movement literally does not exist or it is seen as a joke and degenerate aberration created in the West (looks like some bits of dogma from the former communist regime are still alive in here, even 30 years later). Still, the principle is simple, at least according to state laws: if it is smut, it is smut no matter the character is real or not. This is the world I have been living in for the past 20 years now, the world I was born and raised in: This part is actually interesting. I like learning about new cultures, especially when they are extremely different to the one I am coming from. It is still more than likely a culture shock to me. We, as Romanians in general, look at Japan and the rest of North-East Asia as if it was a completely different planet from the realities of our own country, from customs to culture, values and even infrastructure & level of development. As for that materials, I guess they fall into the same category as that old illustrations Japanese have been creating since the 1600s? (funny how the whole tentacle trope thing for example has been illustrated since the 17th-18th century in old art) Even if rather vaguely, I think I have heard about the original scope of shrine maidens (a little bit of a refresh would be welcome though). I think you have mentioned at some point you are British, correct? Therefore, you might be an Anglican (sorry for making assumptions). Well, Anglicanism (and any other Protestant branch) is quite different from the Eastern Christian Orthodox faith I was born and raised in (yeah, here the parents and society basically born you into the religion, as children are baptized to the Orthodox faith at the age of a few weeks after birth - i.e you have already been part of that religion even before you were born) Orthodox Christianity is a bit of an odd one, probably the most rigid of Christian branches and closes to promoting basically medieval era values IN THE 21ST CENTURY. These sort of values could have worked in a predominantly rural community 100 years ago, but in the modern age things are different. Anime is basically seen as idolatry here, an object of abhorrent sin. Again, in the 21st century in a society that wants to be seen as modern. Aso I personally have nothing against the way people decide to live their lives. To me, as long as you are decent person and can have a nice conversation to, you can do whatever the heck you want or be whoever you want. I would definitely want to learn more about Shinto and Buddhism though, as they seem to be a very stark contrast from the values I was raised with in my community. Especially when it comes to what you have said. And for that, I am trying to be quite as open as I can in order to listen. Alright. So, if I gave you the impression I came here to condemn the entire hentai industry, then I think I have failed to express my message. I have personally come to accept the existence of such content, and sometimes there is also a bit of good in it too. In the original fanservice thread, I have already mentioned my personal conditions/preferences for what I accept even if the material itself is NSFW. Long story short, just to be in good taste (even if that is relative). I am quite ready to leave things aside, but I am way to curious. Curious to learn and understand better the way people think and act. After all, this is not too different from a sociology research we are so encouraged to try in college. Also if I ever tried to run for anything, I would not ban this content like you said (I am laughing quite a bit at how Australia has decided to completely ban hentai). Besides, nice take on the Eiki part. Played it quite well towards the sentiments of the original poster (me). These are my personal rules when it comes to accepting NSFW material: Let me be honest right now. I know absolutely nothing about that game I posted. All my info about it comes from a questionable source, I have only learnt about its existence today, and what I know from it comes from YouTube comments. Also sometimes known as: There is no doubt there are also decent people who make this kind of content. And I am quite glad you had the chance to get in contact with such a person. Overall, I feel sorry to have angered you. I can understand if you were just trying to vent, as I also tend to get into a heated argument when I feel like I want to get something out of me. Perhaps now it will be a little more clear from what sort of background I am coming from, and how did I end up asking this kind of questions. Maybe this unrelated thing will calm down the waters a bit. Therefore, my sacrifice:

Basically a continuation to this thread, but from a different angle. Shifting the focus from official material to fanon material. This started as a simple question, but now I am slowly losing the flare to write it. However, I will try end it with whatever I can still salvage out of my mind. So, let's start. Why are Touhou fans so horny? Looking online, old discussions have always placed Touhou as number #2 or #3 online in terms of the amount of questionable or explicit content. And a good chunk of it seems to be coming from Japan alone. The brief discussion with SasaMisa and Turbonator in general chat served a warmup for what will be going on here. As i was saying. This whole idea to question bugged me since a few days ago. A simple walk through Twitter took me down a whole rabbit whole of questionable and explicit content based on a single artist's retweets. Basically, from a single person, you could end up creating an entire network of artists, most of them from JP. Before I am fully losing coherence, I will just expose my points as a series of ideas: I guess "porn/sex sells" like the saying has always been - I was told by a friend I would be extremely surprised how much an artist can win out of two things: porn/hentai and furry art why is there so much questionable and explicit material about child-looking characters? (not just in Touhou, but as a question in general) - I am sorry to put it so bluntly, but if Danbooru for example was to add a couple new tags, those two would be "child porn" and "fetish" why are we craving such kind of content so much? what is the appeal to such content? why is this so much of a Japan associated thing? At least from my perspective as a European, that sort of thing is utterly bizarre. If a convention or any sort of event was taking place here, with public of all ages, selling smut of any kind would have turned into a public outrage. However, when it comes to stuff like Comiket et al, it seems lie you can very easily sell such content, together with the whole concept of having doujins fully dedicated to just drawing hentai of that subject out of any franchise online, how did Touhou gain so much popularity in terms of such content? is it just because of the almost total freedom ZUN has given in terms of fan materials? did you ever had that kind of weird moment and sensation when discovering a piece of fanart you like and and is perfectly SFW actually has am NSFW version too? it feels very odd if you ask me, especially if you were only used to the safe one, and it was something you really liked despite not having a clear source for the claim Touhou is in top 3 when it comes to the amount of smut material dedicated to any franchise, i do have a source for something else - apparently, Touhou fan art is the one the gave birth to "Ahegaokin" (and more or less the meme too) through a Patchouli image; at least that is what Know Your Meme says going from memes to stats, I have alt least two sources - one for which I need to credit @Tenkko and one I found by chance; it comes in regards to the the amount of Touhou fan content that goes into the unsafe area on both Pixiv and the more infamous R34 (wish we also had a Danbooru/Gelbooru stat, as you could find a lot more there too) (possibly severely outdated) R34 stats from last year in regards to Touhou content (no PC-98 stats though) Also the Pixiv stats as offered by Tenkko + a few comments on my side Also finally, there is this little thing (I cannot believe I had to rely on XE3G weeb for the info, despite how much I hate him as the creator of the "I want mommy" meme format and basically a huge liar). This is, at least from reading the comments, what happens when you let a hentai doujin try to do a safe-for-work project (game is Touhou Shoujo - Tale of Beautiful Memories) The comments, knowing this dude and the kind of audience he brings in, are not so much of a surprise. Honestly, I am not so sure why I am bothering so much anymore. I only end up looking like a failed crusader trying to have a failed fight against something I cannot defeat. But I think the simples thing would just be to sit down, relax and embrace the fandom with whatever it brings in, safe or not, in good or poor taste. But I am still curious though. It is almost pathological for me to ask questions about stuff I do not understand or might have a different opinion about. So yeah, this is the new direction in which the original thread is going. Since this is also basically some sort of fanservice, just of the more innuendo type.

Regarding the argument over lolis in this thread: Getting back on topic, other than the obvious sentiment most people in this thread have agreed with regarding freedom of derivative content, there's a few more factors that I personally believe have played into this. First of all, the data regarding NSFW Touhou art in general (as the OP only breaks it down by character) is roughly as follows: 4% of galleries submitted to e-hentai have at least some art featuring Touhou characters (not a very good representation as a gallery will count here even if there's only one or two images with Touhou characters in them) 3% of all images with an explicit rating submitted to Gelbooru are tagged with "touhou" 1.4% of all images submitted to Rule34 are tagged with "touhou" While the data on this isn't quite clear, compared to the total number of Pixiv submissions, Touhou accounts for 2.4% and Touhou works rated R18 account for 0.2%; do keep in mind that this also takes into account non-NSFW art as there's no data on how many works submitted to Pixiv are rated R18 These are still pretty big numbers when looking at it comparatively, but maybe not as big as someone might think so I thought it would be good to express this data here. But anyways, the fact is that the Japanese cultural framework around sex and sexual expression is so radically different not just from most western countries, but from most countries period. I'm sure many people here have seen the "It's called hentai, and it's art" meme at some point, but the thing about that is that from a Japanese point of view, there's a lot of truth to that statement. Now, obviously, being a sex pest should be enough to get you ostracized from just about any social circle, but merely creating pornographic depictions of fictional characters is (at the very least within otaku circles, where Touhou is most prominent) typically not seen as any different to just creating regular derivative work. Sadly I'm not nearly educated enough to accurately explain the social and historical factors that contribute this, so this surface level analysis will have to do. Another thing is that the number of male Comiket attendees (no data for Reitaisai but intuition leads me to believe that this should be the case there as well if it already wasn't before) has been steadily increasing since the dawn of the century, with men potentially even making up the majority as of a few years ago (or at the very least it being somewhat even compared to the previous overwhelming female majority). And the thing about Touhou is that it has at least one female character that appeals to any kind of moe you can think of. This then encourages doujin artists who focus on making doujins for men (i.e. mostly other men, and those doujins mostly focus on the female characters so as to allow the male reader to self-insert) to enter the Touhou space because not only does it provide you with already finished characters that appeal to whatever archetype you want, thus sparing you the need to come up with an original setting or plot, but is also very immediately recognizable. This also means you'll likely make more money, as you don't have to worry about competition too much due to most people sticking exclusively to hentai works featuring only a few select characters that they like (though that's a secondary factor I'd assume since doujin culture is never about the money first). And all of this not even considering the guys who already like Touhou and are making doujins of it right out of the gate. Though all in all I personally see no issue regarding any of this, if anyone's actually upset by the mere fact that NSFW fan content exists (which is like, come on man you're on the internet) they can always just, y'know, not look at it. I will say one thing though, and that's that some of the most entertaining and thought-provoking media I've experienced falls into this category, be it erotic doujin manga or visual novels with sex scenes or anything in between, so it's definitely not worth avoiding something just because of "oh no sex".

I think this point stems from the fact that historically, western art was very realistic and very much an "at face value" experience, symbolism taking the backseat most times. So now when the same idea of realism is brought to that, it isn't that much of a surprise why people think what they do. Related image

Nah, you didn't anger me at all, CVN. I'm just kind of tapped out over the whole fictional abuse charade. As I declared in the general chat, I used to run my own H-manga/dojinshi site, so I've seen way too much of people getting all het up over what amounts to little more than fantasy at the end of the day. For sure, I was extremely uplifted when I read about Taro Yamada & Ken Akamatsu making a stand in Japan against the encroachment of this nonsense from the West, although I don't see that happening in my country anytime soon. No, we will continue to persecute people for having the wrong kind of thoughts while turning a blind eye to actual abuse because that's the British way. (-_-) Incidentally, I sort of know how things are in Romania from Vee's channel since he is always commenting on the absurdity that is American politics these days and comparing it to the way things are where he lives, often humorously citing what his grandmother would say. I'm actually apolitical myself - never voted my entire life and don't care about such things - and Agnostic, despite being designated Church of England when I was born if it means anything (I did go to Sunday School when I was little; even still have the Bible they gave each of us). Yeah, and ukiyoe woodblock prints clearly show Japan has never had a problem with nudity or sex. A lot of Americans in particular seem to think 'hentai' as they call it, a word that is never used to described such things natively (it literally means 'pervert'), is something they came up with quite recently. Western feminists also believe Japanese women are oppressed and suffer abuse from such material, which is utter nonsense because some of the best stuff I've ever seen is by women. I mean, Comiket itself was practically floated by them early on for heaven's sake! (*_*) Note: Shinto shrine maidens were the ancient equivalent of kanbanmusume, designed to attract new worshippers to the faith. In many ways, Reimu's seeming obsession with donations isn't so far from the truth, even though ZUN chooses not to dwell on the exact method that was used to get said donations. Getting into Buddhism a little more then, one thing that modern-day socialists don't understand is that nirvana is a personal journey to spiritual enlightenment, not a perfect society or utopia. Indeed, because it's a personal thing, nirvana can never be shared with anybody. Like I often say to my mate, Chris: my idea of heaven would be his idea of hell since the things we appreciate most in life are almost completely anathema to one another. Heh, me being a blatant nijicon into the loli, preferring the sort of scenarios you would find in an Enid Blyton storybook definitely wouldn't suit his appreciation for beer, heavy metal, and much more buxom ladies, I can tell you. (=^_^=) In closing, I would add that Nitori from Hopeless Masquerade perfectly depicts my attitude to life, which is precisely why she's my favourite character from said game. Me being a practical engineer and scientist, and pretty easygoing for the most part, I choose to believe most issues can be solved logically, even though that isn't always the case unfortunately. Many of the guys here have touched on the reasons this stuff exists (Japan being Japan basically, nonchalent to a fault) and have undoubtedly gone through what I did with Sailor Moon to varying degrees once they realised the original creators didn't entirely share their Western sensibilities. Not sure that totally explains why so many people are enamored with the girls from Touhou Project, but it works for me at any rate.

I like to bring up the point again that ZUN is lax on the property which could account for a lot of porn. If the creator has no problem with people using his character so it'll be safe to do well anything with them

It's fine to learn and study politics, you never stop learning new things. But by obsessed I was talking about the personal idea of people seeing politics in everything to the point that they must try and force everything into their own political viewpoint and if it's not then it's an action of the other political side. A sort of extreme version of "us vs them" mentality

My opinion on why touhou specifically has so much porn could come down to ZUN being incredibly lax on people who use the property, a similar thing is with Scott cawthon of FNAF fame who encouraged fan games and was also lax towards his property, which can extend towards doujinshi/porn. There are male feminist, just thought I let you know. And this phenomenon seems to be really concentrated in America/Europe All in all, don't become obsessed with politics.

No, no, no!!! Not this damn crap again!! (T_T) How it is in Japan is exactly the way it bloody should be. People who obsess over the rights of fictional characters have lost their grip on reality and I for one am not going to get drawn into that argument again because it always devolves to hysterics. Lolis aren't people, they don't suffer abuse - stop listening to feminist lies and dogma! As for H material in general, we all go through an ambivalent phase: that's part of growing up and experiencing new things. Even I did with Sailor Moon when I was younger, deleting everything and not looking at a single image for around 3 months until I realised just how ridiculous it was. The Japanese don't care what Westerners think because they don't see adult material in quite the same way we do. It's merely okazu to them, masturbatory material... and yes, there's just as much of it for women as well, take it from me, so this is not entirely a male-centric thing either. (>_<) Christianity has taught us to view everything as a sin, yet Buddhism & Shintoism teaches one to embrace life's pleasures (you do know what shrine maidens like Reimu were originally for, I take it?). The Japanese also utterly embrace the philosophy of keeping public and private life totally separate, something Westerners seem to have no end of trouble doing, especially nowadays. Wear a suit & tie during the day and toil at the office; spend your off hours drinking lots of sake and banging young women in an image club who dress up as anime characters for you. It's a totally different world, that's all I can say. The way I see it, CVN, you have two choices: follow your own advice and chill out where this material is concerned, ignoring what you don't like and enjoying what you do, or run for office and attempt, no doubt unsuccessfully, to get it all banned. Personally, I'd recommend the former because the latter will deaden your soul, like it does with every prodnose who believes their life is the yardstick by which everyone else should be judged. Even Eiki wouldn't ban porn, you know, even if it was of her. (-_-) ETA: Oh, and I actually bought that game incidentally; it's by the same circle as Youmu Konpaku & Dungeon Of Lewd Creatures. Whatever you may personally think about the content of those titles, I've actually talked to the creator and he comes across as a decent, hardworking individual who sincerely cares about his productions. No-one is forcing you to buy or play them - you are as free to dislike them as I am to enjoy them. Let's just leave it at that, shall we.