How does aging and ages work like in Touhou?

[CountVonNumenor]

Like the title suggests, I would like to know a bit more about the process of aging for the characters in this series. It all started with a simple question, which will remain important in this thread:

1) how old are the characters in the series?

2) and if they are old, why do so many of them look way younger than the supposed age?

 

Could it just be something related to faith? In a way, such an explanation, despite making some sense, is also odd because if the youkai fed itself with faith and fear, you would not imagine them looking like a cute 15-years-something girl.

The only character I am aware of to have a clear age is Akyuu, who was born August 1994 (therefore she is 27 by now, at the beginning of 2022). The other weird thing is how she seems to be like the only character in the series that actually grows up in appearance, while everyone seems to remain the same as 20 years ago.

 

Sometimes, I just do find it a bit problematic saying to others that I like character x or y from Touhou due to their underage look (made worse by the fact I am almost 20 myself), especially if they start looking ugly at me. And if I explain they are actually very old ("legal" as some would say) you just make it even worse.

 

So anyway, how old are the characters supposed to be, and why do they keep looking the same (very young) after so much time?

 

(this comes from the perspective of someone who got into the world of Japanese stuff through Touhou, and it is completely different from anything I have encounter up to this point here is Romania or in anything coming from the West, so such confusions about “why does X or Y look so young for the supposed job they are doing?”; I am still very much not convinced why anime style makes anyone look much younger than they should be when it comes to drawing, and that happened to me too every time I tried drawing in that manner)

[buskerdog]

2 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

The only character I am aware of to have a clear age is Akyuu, who was born August 1994 (therefore she is 27 by now, at the beginning of 2022). The other weird thing is how she seems to be like the only character in the series that actually grows up in appearance, while everyone seems to remain the same as 20 years ago.

I think the tldr is "because ZUN doesn't want to have to think about that when writing the story". It's basically like the infamous Ash Ketchum paradox, where he's forever 10 years old for the purposes of keeping Pokemon marketable. This does of course make Akyuu stick out like a sore thumb compared to the other humans, but I do find the fact that ZUN has actually bothered to keep her age accurate to passing of time incredibly interesting - after all, the children of Miare have short lifespans. Has ZUN actually planned ahead regarding when Akyuu will die? How is that going to be presented to us, the consumers? As for the other humans... well yeah, it's just a bit strange that they appear not to change much. I'd like to argue that doesn't necessarily mean they don't age, but it is clear that it's a topic ZUN would rather not address directly. At this point, I do think it's best for ZUN to not give the humans precise canon ages, however I would be interested to one day see him make a game or manga where the main characters have clearly aged, either as some sort of time-skip scenario, or just from him saying "yeah, so from this point on the characters have existed long enough to become adults. Don't ask me why the change was so sudden instead of gradual". Would be a cool way to end the series, if he ever decides to do that.

But what about the youkai? Well simply put, with the number of youkai that we know are hundreds or thousands of years old, I think it's safe to say that age doesn't really effect them much appearance-wise. Touhou's youkai are effectively born out of a collective concept of them, it's more like they just "pop in and out of existence" (similarly to the fairies), and they just look the way they do because "that's how they look". They're supernatural creatures and like many things in Touhou, logic isn't meant to be applied to them.

So, now for the big question: how old actually are Touhou's main characters? (Mainly talking about Reimu and Marisa here). Well, as we both already know they don't have any canon stated age, but here is my personal headcanon on the matter:

• PC-98: It's a separate(-ish) canon to the later games, but regardless in Touhou 1-5 they are straight up just children.
• th6 to th10: They are in early teenagehood.
• th11 to th15: Late teenagers.
• th16 to now: They are young adults.

Conveniently, it would appear that each of my age brackets are separated by every 5 games.

[Gou the frog]

Oh, I am writing a very big one right now. I hope that doesn't bore anyone.

[Gou the frog]

We are touching age this time, there're two factors when it comes to age in Gensokyo: physical and actual age.

Well, Physical is pretty obvious they're all in their late twenties of course. When talking about Actual age, things are going to get spicy. (Hotter than any grandma one in Gensokyo.) I'll be using the Touhou wiki gensokyo timeline, Zun's statements and lastly my preference about Touhou to give out a fair judgment. Here is the timeline in Touhou wiki  Gensokyo Timeline - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more

The two stars of Touhou 

Reimu: Unknown but couple of years older than Marisa considering 16 years are in-between EoSD and TH17. She maybe around 1992-1990, making her around 11-13 at the very start of Touhou project. Mentality an old teenager which is in 27-29. I wonder where the canon seal is?

Marisa: Couple of Years younger than Reimu. Thus, making her 24-26. 

 

Starting off with EosD

=====================================================================================

There aren't enough info so, please bear with me. 

Rumia: there isn't a canon age for her but assuming the event of EosD she would be in 62-74 Youkai are old and she's in that range. 

Daiyousei: same deal as Rumia in that same range. Another thing is that fairies are as old as the nuture.

Cirno: She was implied over 60 after the events of PoFV if my memories serve me correctly. Now would be 77-79 since PoFV came out 17 years ago. She is also part of the Nature. (Fairies are really confusing)

Meiling: if you want to go back to the ancient period, sure Qin dynasty. She might be 2400 years old, it ain't weird in Gensokyo. I have to take a guess in this one 110-160 sounds good?

Patchouli: Finally, some breath of fresh air. She's over 100 since she's born between 1885 and 1905. I'll call her 140 years old.

Sakuya: She might be riddled with Remilia power and there's also the Jack The Ripper theory, she'd alive in 1882. If you go with the timeline, she would   probably be in her early 30s. 

Remilia: Another breath of fresh air, she is 519 years old to the Gensokyo timeline.

Flandre: Yep, 5 years younger than Remilia.

Koakuma: No canon age, well, she is little devil not big devil. Might be a few years younger than Patchouli. I'll give her the 100 years pass.

=============================================================================================================

Next is PCB:

===============================================================================================

Oh boy, another set of unknown canon ages,

Letty: Ok, if your going out with a Yuuki Onna, don't ask her, her age. Let's go back to Muromachi period: the 1336-1573. If we are using this as reference she is going to be 449-600-ish? Man, these're starting to be hard to guess.

Alice: Wait isn't she considered young for a youkai. For magicians passing the 100 threshold would be old. Since she's considered young, she might as well be in her 80s. 

Chen: No canon ball for this neko cap'n. Cats would transformed to a bake-neko if they are simply too old. That CHEEENNNN might a few decade old sailor. Cap'n believe her to be around 22 years old.

Lily: Well, fairies again? Why am I judging each nature age? There's no canon flower blooming around this season. I suppose she'd be as old as the ice fairy if not younger. 65?

Prismriver Sisters: Oh my byakuren above there's no canon, centuries old should be logical? Lunasa-430, Merlin-460, Lyrica-445.

Youmu: I'll say she's in around 60 years old, hit or miss: her phantom half might have been existed longer??

Yuyuko: In her human era, she wasn't too old. Probably in early 20s/30s. She became a ghost 1000 years ago. This princess is over 1200. (Aya put her into your newspaper)

Ran: The 9- tails should be in her late 900s. The Unknown is the other way around.

Yukari: Older than the Gensokyo itself you're not *gap* (17), You're gapping over *gaps* (1200) like your ghost friend. Stop trying to interrupt me. There's is also one of my theory, that Yukari is created before the universe was and made the barrier between existence and non-existence. She could be millions of yeas old.

=============================================================================================================

U.F.O reached

=============================================================================================================

Whew, there's only one cloud that's missing.

Unzan: Why do you think the young kids called you grumpy? That's because you're missing out on canon. An old cloud sprit, well, if you can't find the current give it an original treatment: Cloud are seasons old but being a spirt makes you decades old, (20-40)

Narzin: A 1000 years old rat? That's not really old at all. Tell ya what scarvy, you're 1068. 

Kogasa: Who left this umbrella over here for over 1000 years. Meanwhile, someone on heaven "shoot, I've left my 1074 years old cover."

Ichirin: Human truned to a pokemon nyuudou trainer which is also over 1000 years? Bring me an older one. I.E 1057

Minamitsu: Cap'n there no cannonball left. What should we do? "Arrrr I became the captain of the Palequin ship between 825 C.E and 990." "I was human traveler like you once upon a time." (early 20s hit or miss) "But I took a whirlpool to the surface of the sea. Ie older than me mates possibly immortal." another over 1000 years, I said bring me an older one. You'll be scared, cap'n is in her late 1070s.

Shou: Ze tiger is over 1000 Starlingards. Most definitely older zhan Narzin. you're older zhan ze rat: 1080 Euro.

Byakuren: "Let the Touhou Jesus Buddha show you the way of the youths." (Not mentioned over 1100 years old nun) Finally someone older than the 1139.

=============================================================================================================

Everyone's favourite IN

=============================================================================================================

My back is hurting but the canon fuse is missing in a couple of this area.

Wriggle: No more canon flies, shoot how old is a youkai fly? Make it 86, a tad bit older than the fairies.

Keine: 80?, over 1400? We don't know since she has forgotten about a 1434 years old canon scroll.

Mystia: The night sparrow is unknown but she is considered young as a youkai. 76 sounds pretty reasonable.

Tewi: If the White Rabbit of Inaba, she would be several centuries old, possibly older than Yukari or even Eirin. At least 1377 okay? Might be older than Yukari or Eirin (This is Gensokyo we're talking about.

Reisen: I'm certain she's over 40, partner. Perhaps older. 

Eirin: Well, looks who decided to show up? 1300 year old pharmacist? Wroight, in Zun's words she is somewhere between 100,000,000's in age. Older than Moon god for sure.

Kaguya: 1300? Another Wroight. She is in the league with Eirin and Yukari's

Mokou: Born somewhere between 700C.E. Could be over 1300 years eh?

=============================================================================================================

PoFV  joins in for smash.

=============================================================================================================

Some Breath of Air: the calm before the storm.

Komachi and Shiki: Hell is missing a canon letter from Heaven. Look, you can't even make sense out of this. They're both billions of billions ............................................................... billions, wait what number am I at? Better count from the beginning.

Aya: Settled in Gensokyo 1000 year ago. Over 1100 give or take.

Medicine: Immortal doll. I say she is a passing the 100 gap.

Yuuka: Over 60 but implied to be older. (What am I saying? This is Gensokyo)

=============================================================================================================

I'm too sleepy. The clock is also striking midnight. I'll cover MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK, HSiFS, Spin offs characters, Manga characters and CD character. Feel free to correct if I'm wrong at the "cannon ball" age. Let's begin the torture tommorow. Good luck reading this and sequel. After all, I said this would be long. 

 

 

 

[Tayaya]

47 minutes ago, Gou the frog said:

We are touching age this time, there're two factors when it comes to age in Gensokyo: physical and actual age.

Well, Physical is pretty obvious they're all in their late twenties of course. When talking about Actual age, things are going to get spicy. (Hotter than any grandma one in Gensokyo.) I'll be using the Touhou wiki gensokyo timeline, Zun's statements and lastly my preference about Touhou to give out a fair judgment. Here is the timeline in Touhou wiki  Gensokyo Timeline - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more

The two stars of Touhou 

Reimu: Unknown but couple of years older than Marisa considering 16 years are in-between EoSD and TH17. She maybe around 1992-1990, making her around 11-13 at the very start of Touhou project. Mentality an old teenager which is in 27-29. I wonder where the canon seal is?

Marisa: Couple of Years younger than Reimu. Thus, making her 24-26. 

 

Starting off with EosD

=====================================================================================

There aren't enough info so, please bear with me. 

Rumia: there isn't a canon age for her but assuming the event of EosD she would be in 62-74 Youkai are old and she's in that range. 

Daiyousei: same deal as Rumia in that same range. Another thing is that fairies are as old as the nuture.

Cirno: She was implied over 60 after the events of PoFV if my memories serve me correctly. Now would be 77-79 since PoFV came out 17 years ago. She is also part of the Nature. (Fairies are really confusing)

Meiling: if you want to go back to the ancient period, sure Qin dynasty. She might be 2400 years old, it ain't weird in Gensokyo. I have to take a guess in this one 110-160 sounds good?

Patchouli: Finally, some breath of fresh air. She's over 100 since she's born between 1885 and 1905. I'll call her 140 years old.

Sakuya: She might be riddled with Remilia power and there's also the Jack The Ripper theory, she'd alive in 1882. If you go with the timeline, she would   probably be in her early 30s. 

Remilia: Another breath of fresh air, she is 519 years old to the Gensokyo timeline.

Flandre: Yep, 5 years younger than Remilia.

Koakuma: No canon age, well, she is little devil not big devil. Might be a few years younger than Patchouli. I'll give her the 100 years pass.

=============================================================================================================

Next is PCB:

===============================================================================================

Oh boy, another set of unknown canon ages,

Letty: Ok, if your going out with a Yuuki Onna, don't ask her, her age. Let's go back to Muromachi period: the 1336-1573. If we are using this as reference she is going to be 449-600-ish? Man, these're starting to be hard to guess.

Alice: Wait isn't she considered young for a youkai. For magicians passing the 100 threshold would be old. Since she's considered young, she might as well be in her 80s. 

Chen: No canon ball for this neko cap'n. Cats would transformed to a bake-neko if they are simply too old. That CHEEENNNN might a few decade old sailor. Cap'n believe her to be around 22 years old.

Lily: Well, fairies again? Why am I judging each nature age? There's no canon flower blooming around this season. I suppose she'd be as old as the ice fairy if not younger. 65?

Prismriver Sisters: Oh my byakuren above there's no canon, centuries old should be logical? Lunasa-430, Merlin-460, Lyrica-445.

Youmu: I'll say she's in around 60 years old, hit or miss: her phantom half might have been existed longer??

Yuyuko: In her human era, she wasn't too old. Probably in early 20s/30s. She became a ghost 1000 years ago. This princess is over 1200. (Aya put her into your newspaper)

Ran: The 9- tails should be in her late 900s. The Unknown is the other way around.

Yukari: Older than the Gensokyo itself you're not *gap* (17), You're gapping over *gaps* (1200) like your ghost friend. Stop trying to interrupt me. There's is also one of my theory, that Yukari is created before the universe was and made the barrier between existence and non-existence. She could be millions of yeas old.

=============================================================================================================

U.F.O reached

=============================================================================================================

Whew, there's only one cloud that's missing.

Unzan: Why do you think the young kids called you grumpy? That's because you're missing out on canon. An old cloud sprit, well, if you can't find the current give it an original treatment: Cloud are seasons old but being a spirt makes you decades old, (20-40)

Narzin: A 1000 years old rat? That's not really old at all. Tell ya what scarvy, you're 1068. 

Kogasa: Who left this umbrella over here for over 1000 years. Meanwhile, someone on heaven "shoot, I've left my 1074 years old cover."

Ichirin: Human truned to a pokemon nyuudou trainer which is also over 1000 years? Bring me an older one. I.E 1057

Minamitsu: Cap'n there no cannonball left. What should we do? "Arrrr I became the captain of the Palequin ship between 825 C.E and 990." "I was human traveler like you once upon a time." (early 20s hit or miss) "But I took a whirlpool to the surface of the sea. Ie older than me mates possibly immortal." another over 1000 years, I said bring me an older one. You'll be scared, cap'n is in her late 1070s.

Shou: Ze tiger is over 1000 Starlingards. Most definitely older zhan Narzin. you're older zhan ze rat: 1080 Euro.

Byakuren: "Let the Touhou Jesus Buddha show you the way of the youths." (Not mentioned over 1100 years old nun) Finally someone older than the 1139.

=============================================================================================================

Everyone's favourite IN

=============================================================================================================

My back is hurting but the canon fuse is missing in a couple of this area.

Wriggle: No more canon flies, shoot how old is a youkai fly? Make it 86, a tad bit older than the fairies.

Keine: 80?, over 1400? We don't know since she has forgotten about a 1434 years old canon scroll.

Mystia: The night sparrow is unknown but she is considered young as a youkai. 76 sounds pretty reasonable.

Tewi: If the White Rabbit of Inaba, she would be several centuries old, possibly older than Yukari or even Eirin. At least 1377 okay? Might be older than Yukari or Eirin (This is Gensokyo we're talking about.

Reisen: I'm certain she's over 40, partner. Perhaps older. 

Eirin: Well, looks who decided to show up? 1300 year old pharmacist? Wroight, in Zun's words she is somewhere between 100,000,000's in age. Older than Moon god for sure.

Kaguya: 1300? Another Wroight. She is in the league with Eirin and Yukari's

Mokou: Born somewhere between 700C.E. Could be over 1300 years eh?

=============================================================================================================

PoFV  joins in for smash.

=============================================================================================================

Some Breath of Air: the calm before the storm.

Komachi and Shiki: Hell is missing a canon letter from Heaven. Look, you can't even make sense out of this. They're both billions of billions ............................................................... billions, wait what number am I at? Better count from the beginning.

Aya: Settled in Gensokyo 1000 year ago. Over 1100 give or take.

Medicine: Immortal doll. I say she is a passing the 100 gap.

Yuuka: Over 60 but implied to be older. (What am I saying? This is Gensokyo)

=============================================================================================================

I'm too sleepy. The clock is also striking midnight. I'll cover MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK, HSiFS, Spin offs characters, Manga characters and CD character. Feel free to correct if I'm wrong at the "cannon ball" age. Let's begin the torture tommorow. Good luck reading this and sequel. After all, I said this would be long. 

 

 

 

So they're all "legal"? 

[CountVonNumenor]

Alright, so time to answer some of the points presented until now:
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Well, Physical is pretty obvious they're all in their late twenties of course.

I am not very sure about this one. Might be due to ZUN's style being, well...bad, but everyone looks way too young than this supposed "late twenties". Perhaps other official art made for the books, magazines and manga could have helped correct the problems created by ZUN. However, they seem to have rolled with it, and many of the characters look like your "generic 14-16 years old" anime girl most of the time. For crying out loud, Junko was a mother for example. However, I do not feel like any of the official depictions of her make this idea justice. 
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Zun's statements

Has he ever made any statement in regards to the ages of characters? I do not know where I have heard this before, but common discussion states that Gensokyo works on "Simpsons time logic", aka even after 20 years nobody seems to have aged a day at all. Which I am quite honestly not so much of a fan of. Maybe it is due to how and what I associate it with, that being series in which characters do not change at all, and if they learn something new, everything will revert to the status quo at the end of the episode, therefore making the whole experience useless to begin with. But with this tangent going on, time to actually look a bit into some of the characters.
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Letty: Ok, if your going out with a Yuuki Onna, don't ask her, her age. Let's go back to Muromachi period: the 1336-1573. If we are using this as reference she is going to be 449-600-ish? Man, these're starting to be hard to guess.

i mean yeah, if we go by when the first legend of a Yuki Onna was registered during the Muromachi period, assuming Letty would be that very same one, she would indeed be from the 450-600 years old as you have stated. 
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Alice: Wait isn't she considered young for a youkai. For magicians passing the 100 threshold would be old. Since she's considered young, she might as well be in her 80s. 

I've actually been curious about Alice for a while. If we consider that PC-98 era "Alice" from Mystic Square is the same as Windows era "Alice Margatroid", it means that Alice was small at the time, but somehow ended up growing in the time between her appearance in MS and next appearance in PCB. Plus, it is not really clear to me what age difference would there be between the PC-98 character and the contemporary Reimu and Marisa, but that would be interesting to further investigate. 
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Youmu: I'll say she's in around 60 years old, hit or miss: her phantom half might have been existed longer??

If I can remember this bit correctly, in PoFV it was stated that Youmu was too young to remember (or maybe even witness) the previous flower incident. To take it into context, each Touhou apparently takes place in the year it was released. therefore, PoFV took place back in 2005. Going 60 years earlier, the previous incident was in 1945, which very much would make sense given the Second World War going on at the time. In conclusion, Youmu would quite likely have to be born after 1945 (if she indeed did not witness the event), and from 2005 until 2022 there have been 17 years. So something <60 + 17 for current age. Just my guess.
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Ran: The 9- tails should be in her late 900s.

Logically, that's how it works with Kitsune. I would not see it as impossible in the case of Ran. [would have also made a reference to Tamamo no Mae, but it is not really the moment for it]
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Kaguya: 1300? Another Wroight. She is in the league with Eirin and Yukari's

It is possible. From what I know, Kaguya Houraisan is inspired by the princess of the same name featured in the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter, which is apparently the oldest Japanese tale we know of. And since supposedly the story seems to be from the the Heian period while actions taking place in the Asuka-Nara periods, and one of the four suitors was Fujiwara no Fuhito (historically 659-720 AD), Mokou's father, there would have been around 1340 years since that. 
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

Mokou: Born somewhere between 700C.E. Could be over 1300 years eh?

Probably a similar story to that of Kaguya. Historically, her father had children in a roughly 15 years span according to the wiki (interesting...it seems like like Fujiwara had 4 daughters and 4 sons out of 4 marriages), which means Mokou could be born around this time. Which might also be the timeframe in which the Kaguya story takes. Well, it actually becomes more confusing than I thought, because there would be a second person claimed to be Mokou's father, and that would be (Prince) Kuromachi no Miko, who is also claimed to be one of the suitors involved in the Kaguya-hime story (look, people at the time seem to have really liked to poke fun at the nobility, if the idea that each of the nobles in the story was named after a real personality of the time), even if Fujiwara no Fuhito is commonly seen as a more probable option. Well, I am losing track now, so moving on...
 

4 hours ago, Gou the frog said:

I'll cover MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK, HSiFS, Spin offs characters, Manga characters and CD character.

I hope you will also cover WBaWC and UM. Idk why, but I have a slight feeling you have completely omitted these two games.


Anyway, good analysis until now, and I cannot wait for part 2. 

[Tenkko]

I'm gonna echo a bit of what buskerdog said, but I mean the general idea afaik is that time flows the same as in the real world, so Reimu should be 20 years older than she was in EoSD for example. However old she was back then.

As for why they don't appear to change much physically sometimes it's uh, lore reason is up to you. Youkai stuff. Chen does look a little older in CDS funnily enough. Fairies are just like that though.

Design reason? Yeah it would go against the "status quo" of Touhou, it'd be too big a change, which is something ZUN doesn't seem interested in.

[CountVonNumenor]

8 hours ago, buskerdog said:

This does of course make Akyuu stick out like a sore thumb compared to the other humans, but I do find the fact that ZUN has actually bothered to keep her age accurate to passing of time incredibly interesting - after all, the children of Miare have short lifespans. Has ZUN actually planned ahead regarding when Akyuu will die? How is that going to be presented to us, the consumers?

Oh shit, that is actually a very good point. I remember that I read recently that article from Who is Who regarding Akyuu, and my first honest reaction was shock when I found out she is to live for just about 30 years, which brought me to a bit of a panic thinking ym favorite character might die soon. But indeed, it would be interesting to see how this situation will be handled when the moment comes. Which would be in around 2 years from now, as she's almost 28. 

 

8 hours ago, buskerdog said:

At this point, I do think it's best for ZUN to not give the humans precise canon ages

Hmmm, now I really wonder, unironically, why would it be as such. Is there any concern this would give any more fuel for the artists to draw lewd content or start pushing towards ecchi even in official materials (although more than likely ZUN would not allow the latter to pass as I know he checks all materials to give approval, especially official stuff if I am not wrong) under the pretext of "but they are legal"? Is there any complication when it comes to having to write a character of a specific age? Or these two, plus a myriad of other reasons I might be not thinking of right now as I'm writing?

 

8 hours ago, buskerdog said:

But what about the youkai? Well simply put, with the number of youkai that we know are hundreds or thousands of years old, I think it's safe to say that age doesn't really effect them much appearance-wise. Touhou's youkai are effectively born out of a collective concept of them, it's more like they just "pop in and out of existence" (similarly to the fairies), and they just look the way they do because "that's how they look". They're supernatural creatures and like many things in Touhou, logic isn't meant to be applied to them.

I've been thinking of something among these lines a while ago. Maybe it is related to faith and fear that determines how the youkai/god will look like. Which can also be connected to their physical appearance and design choice. Right here, I'd spawn a bit of a headcanon: in the old days, people used to fear the youkai. Therefore, this fear turned them into the frightening, mythology-accurate forms we know of from Japanese traditions. However, as times changed, people have started to become less fearful of them, especially in the outside world following the increasing implementation of science, and therefore the youkai have started to lose their frightening factor and so started to look more like cute girls, while still somehow retaining their powers more or less. I am not very sure if any of this makes sense, but this is what I could come up as a random theory at 3 AM.


Anyway, I can't wait to see more going on in this thread. 

[Gou the frog]

6 hours ago, CountVonNumenor said:

Has he ever made any statement in regards to the ages of characters? I do not know where I have heard this before, but common discussion states that Gensokyo works on "Simpsons time logic", aka even after 20 years nobody seems to have aged a day at all. Which I am quite honestly not so much of a fan of. Maybe it is due to how and what I associate it with, that being series in which characters do not change at all, and if they learn something new, everything will revert to the status quo at the end of the episode, therefore making the whole experience useless to begin with. But with this tangent going on, time to actually look a bit into some of the characters.

 Zun "drunkenly" made the source stating that her age is in hundreds of millions but in the Gensokyo timeline article he stated  her age but it doesn't have any citation. 

I found this one on Talk:Eirin Yagokoro - Touhou Wiki - Characters, games, locations, and more .

[Gou the frog]

Picking up what I've left last night.

MoF-if

=================================================================================================

Oo Wee, There's going to a lot of canonballs in the sky.

Aki sisters: "Why do we have very little fate?", 'cause they don't harvest canon. If we go back to the origins of autumn gods and what not. They'd would be centuries old. Minoriko is younger than Shizuha. Side note: Could Minoriko somehow be related to a Greek Harvest God (Demeter?)

Hina: You spin without canon. Damm I'm getting dizzy. Let's go back to Heain Period  794-1185, judging by the nagashi-bina, she would be over 837-1218. Her Being a misfortune god and all.

Nitori: Kappas comes in pair with oni & tengu. They're all over 1000 years old, since Nitori hasn't acquired a canon shihirikodama. A kappa was captured in Meiwa period 1764-1772 referencing that, she would be a bit earlier than that so, around 300 years old.

Momiji: Yeah, 49: definitely younger than Aya but long lived for a wolf tengu.

Sanae: Around Marisa/Reimu age, Mid teens and based on real life Sanae which is also a descendent of Moriya Swuako. 

Kanako: Finally someone older than 1000, She is over 2000 years old since the Suwa War was about 2300 years ago. Wait, she's actually older than the War!

Suwako: I know for the fact that she is one of the oldest god in existence, She was alive long before the war and the invasion of Kanako & Yamato. I assume, she is younger than Eirin: millions or billions?

=================================================================================================

Sa finally woke up:

=================================================================================================

~Warning~ Below this surface, there's no one that's aware of the canon sake. ~Warning~

Yamanae:  Tsuchigumo were written in the 14th century so, I want to give her the over 600 years old treatment.

Parsee: Hashihime first appeared in the Heian-period literature: let's pair her with hina. Thus, making her in her early 1000s.

Orin: Kasha is a type of bake-neko so, decades or centuries? Your take! She's working in hell for quite a long time.

Utosho: Same footing as Orin but if we count a hell raven life span and Yatagarasu's: over 2682.

Kisume: She is implied young so probably decades old.

Yuugi: One of the four Diva, Considering the 4 legendary youkai of Japan, She's definitely tons of thousands of years old.

Satori: Let's go back to Edo period 1603-1867, she is older than Koshi albeit I'll give her the over 400 years pass.

Koshi: Younger than Satori. -11 from satori's age.

=================================================================================================

 TD's said who's next:

=================================================================================================

Another calm before the Tsunami

Kyouko: We don't know her canon voice: the Yamabiko wasn't officially classified until the Edo Period. Implying she might be alive before edo making her over 500 years old.

Mamizou: Guess what? This Tanuki have doesn't have canonically large balls. She's a ancient racoon whom might be alive from the very start in the land of japan. 13,000 BC or 1300. After all, She is one of the characters that seems/does become more mature with her age like Akyuu.

Yoshika: Ageless, Dead. If you want my guess she's 120 years in.

Seiga: At least, 1400 old. She taught Toyosatomimi no Miko the way of Taoism before 587 C.E, might be older than Miko.

Tojiko: Same bolt as Seiga. Bonus: Ghost.

Futo: We don't really know but one thing is in the boat: she's older than 1400 years old.

Miko: Born on 574/02/07, making her 1440 years old.

=================================================================================================

 

Shoot, just when things are going to about to get interesting, I got hit with a test today. So, I'll finished this in round 3, in night.

Brought to you by Gou by looking into multiple wikis to make sure everything is in place. 

 

[Gou the frog]

Time to write another long one, this time it's going to be very long. So, you might want to grab something to eat or drink at night.

[CountVonNumenor]

Right on the topic of ages, I have found the following part. It is part of a Pastebin document running around on the Touhou community Discord community for I think 3 years now.

for anyone who wants to read it fully, it can be found here - https://pastebin.com/ve86tskn

This is what it says:

Quote

 

1. ==Theoretical Questions==
2.  
3. T1. How old are the human characters in Touhou (Reimu, Marisa, etc)?
4. That is a complicated question since almost all human characters have no known birth year, but there is some facts that can reasoned from currently existing information. Let's start with Reimu and Marisa.
5.  
6. As we know, Gensokyo's time runs parallel to our own. We do know the birth month and year of one human character, Hieda no Akyuu. She was born June 1994, which makes her 25 years old (as of 2019 when this document was written). During the events of the Scarlet Mist incident (August 2003), Akyuu would have been 9 years old. Akyuu's first debut in Touhou was in 2006 in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, we know this is 2006, as well as the sister manga short, Memorizable Gensokyo, which show cases how Akyuu was coming up with entries and articles that would be put into the Gensokyo Chronicle. In the year 2006, Akyuu was 12 years old. The way Akyuu was depicted in this manga she was rather small, compared to Reimu and Marisa. Based on this, we can safely say that Reimu and Marisa are older than Akyuu. By how much, we don't know. Since things like genetics and puberty are a thing it could be said that Reimu and Marisa are at least 1 year older than Akyuu. It is impossible that Akyuu is older than Reimu and Marisa. Considering that 6 years later, the debut of the manga series Forbidden Scrollery shows a taller Akyuu (she is as tall, if not taller than Reimu in fact) where she is 18 years old it very clearly shows growth, as well as the fact that Reimu and Marisa (probably) stopped growing themselves around 6 years ago.
    
7.  
8.  
9. Something else to keep in mind is the sexagnerary zodiac cycle. Each year has an associated animal and wu xing element (fire, earth, metal, water, wood), and every sixty years each and every combination and animal and element combination is gone through. This is important to note because if you look at the list in zodiac years, the years with the element wood around Akyuu's birth are ~Feb 1994 to Jan 1996, and the years of water is ~Feb 1992 to Jan 1994.
10.  
11. A chart to show what I mean:
12.  
13. This is important to note, because Reimu's element is Wood, and Marisa's element is Water. Those are also the only possible years that they could be born in around that time period without being younger than Akyuu (of course in the case of Reimu, she can't be born after June 1994), or ending up MUCH older than Akyuu by about 12 years.
14.  
15. This would mean that Reimu is only a few months older than Akyuu, which is something pretty interesting to think about.
16.  
17. So based on this theorycrafting, Reimu would be the same age as Akyuu, only older by a few months. Meanwhile Marisa is actually older than Reimu, by at most 2 years.
18.  
19. As for Sakuya, we don't know. We probably won't ever know. Especially with her powers over time, she could potentially live forever anyway.
20.  
21. In the case of Kosuzu, during one of the manga chapters, Kosuzu remarks herself as "not being much younger than Akyuu". We don't exactly know what this means, but perhaps Kosuzu is at most 5 years younger than Akyuu. Meaning Kosuzu is between 19-24.
22.  
23. As for Sanae, she is most likely the same age as Reimu. If you consider the events of MoF take place in Autumn 2007, Akyuu would be 13 years old. If you consider that Sanae is around Reimu/Marisa's age, she'd have to be 13-15. 15 years old is high school age in Japan, so this is possible.

 

As for the way time passes in Gensokyo, the same file is giving us the following:
 

Quote

 

1. F9. What is the timeline of Touhou/How does time progress in Touhou?
2. There is an article on the touhou wiki that gives a nice summary of the timeline of Gensokyo. Be wary that not all information has a citation, but what is in this page is for the most part, true.
3. https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Gensokyo_Timeline
4. To further summarize, time in Touhou runs parallel to our own**, meaning it is currently (as of this posting) December 2019 in Gensokyo. The events of EoSD took place in August 2003, meaning it has been 16 years since the Scarlet Mist incident.
5. ** Be aware that while the progression of time is the same as our world, the *effects* of time are not the same. Characters do not age up until ZUN wants them too. ZUN has called this "Sazae-time", which is named after a long running cartoon series in Japan. For us westerners, this could be comparable to The Simpsons.

 

[Tayaya]

12 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

R

Very relatable

[CountVonNumenor]

19 minutes ago, Tayaya said:

Very relatable

I am sorry. That was purely by mistake. I was on my way to write the long reply, and only managed to press "R" and then mis-clicked. Anyway, now there's a full answer, but "R" is also an option. 

[Tayaya]

8 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

I am sorry. That was purely by mistake. I was on my way to write the long reply, and only managed to press "R" and then mis-clicked. Anyway, now there's a full answer, but "R" is also an option. 

Lol so they aren't "legal"? 

[Tayaya]

I don't know if it will work for all the games but we could tell time by the seasons. Since we know PCB takes place at the beginning of spring then IN takes place during the harvest moon festival during fall and finally PoFV starts in spring also, It could be just a year passed between those games meaning every 2 games could be one year or so.

[Tayaya]

9 minutes ago, Tayaya said:

I don't know if it will work for all the games but we could tell time by the seasons. Since we know PCB takes place at the beginning of spring then IN takes place during the harvest moon festival during fall and finally PoFV starts in spring also, It could be just a year passed between those games meaning every 2 games could be one year or so.

If we continue this, MoF takes place during fall due to Aki, then SA is during winter due to Marisa's clothing and Hot springs, so thats another year. UFO according to the wiki rumors of the treasure ship started in spring so sometime around then. I'm too lazy to check all the games but that's how we could tell the in game time.

[CountVonNumenor]

1 hour ago, Tayaya said:

Lol so they aren't "legal"? 

That's... debatable. And that's what I've been talking and asking about in a multitude of threads until now. 

[Tayaya]

4 minutes ago, CountVonNumenor said:

That's... debatable. And that's what I've been talking and asking about in a multitude of threads until now. 

It's Schrödinger's character. They are both "legal" and "illegal" until you open the fanart. 

[buskerdog]

1 hour ago, Tayaya said:

I don't know if it will work for all the games but we could tell time by the seasons. Since we know PCB takes place at the beginning of spring then IN takes place during the harvest moon festival during fall and finally PoFV starts in spring also, It could be just a year passed between those games meaning every 2 games could be one year or so.

This is the sort of method I have often thought of for measuring time in Gensokyo, never bothered to actually calculate any of it, though.

[CountVonNumenor]

5 minutes ago, Tayaya said:

It's Schrödinger's character. They are both "legal" and "illegal" until you open the fanart. 

Very much. And here comes the gratuitious connection to my recent thread on fanservice, as this "Schrödinger's box" sort of situation is addressed in there too. 

[Tayaya]

6 minutes ago, buskerdog said:

This is the sort of method I have often thought of for measuring time in Gensokyo, never bothered to actually calculate any of it, though.

Yea I can't find what season TD is but if Reimu is 13 at the very start of the series then using this method she would be 21 at the end of UM and I assume it's around the same for Marisa so they are all "Legal" then lol

[buskerdog]

2 minutes ago, Tayaya said:

Yea I can't find what season TD is but if Reimu is 13 at the very start of the series then using this method she would be 21 at the end of UM and I assume it's around the same for Marisa so they are all "Legal" then lol

AHA! MY HEADCANON WAS CORRECT AFTER ALL! 

[CountVonNumenor]

So, from what I managed to understand reading that document: Reimu and Marisa are theoretically in their late 20s. However, even if time progresses in Gensokyo and the year is the same as in the outside world, they live in a Simpsons style time bubble. Also for some reason, both of them stopped growing/maturing physically, while other characters like Akyuu actually developed in time (that comparison between her first appearance in Perfect Memento and how she looks like in Forbidden Scrollery).

I will keep it on Akyuu right now, simply because I like her. In a way, official art has helped, but there are also moments when it becomes as much of a mess as your average ZUN drawing:



From Perfect Memento in Strict Sense (2006)



From Memorizable Gensokyo (2006) - just like in PMiSS makes sense, she she was a bit over 10 at the time



Akyuu's Untouched Score vol 1 (also 2006) - ZUN art moment







From Forbidden Scrollery (bottom image comes from Volume 4, so the year 2015) - we have a time skip of 10 years since PMiSS; in the first two images, it looks like she grew up quite a bit. However, the Volume 4 cover image seems to blow that all out the window, going back to classic 14-16 year old anime girl appearance (might be due to the art-style chosen)



Akyuu as depicted in Who's Who of Human & Youkai - Everlasting Edition (2020) - this one seems to be sticking a little more to the Volume 4 design idea, as she looks a bit young for the supposed age of 26 at the time this book was published. It is still a very nice piece of art though, I cannot deny that. 


In conclusion: things are not clear. Every artist who drew for the official printed materials seems to have gone for a different style, and from there comes a bit of inconsistency. 

[Gou the frog]

Round three, to tie this mess I've created. This's going to be so wild since almost everyone mentioned here are all missing cannon to load to a ageless ship.

Meet the DDC 

=============================================================================================================

Here comes the Tsunami

Wakasagihime: She does not have a canon age. (running a bit out of canon jokes). The first recorded mermaid sightings in Japan are found in the Nihon Shoki one of the oldest books of classical Japanese history, dating back to 619 CE. If we're using that she's already 1403 years old. (I want to bring up the tale of Yao Bikuni but the moment is not right as of now)

Sekibanki: She should've bought a canon scarf to hold her head and to blend in with the villagers. 2 in one: rokurokubi and nukekubi which is from edo. (1600-1868) Guess what she's going to join the couple hundreds year group.

Kagerou: Why? Their species are now canonically gone extinct in 1732 which is once again Edo period. The last specimen was officially killed in 1905 in Nara Prefecture on Honshu Island, Japan. So, I'll assume she is alive and well before 1732, making her over 290-422 years old.

 Seija: I have no idea about this one I mean she flipped nonac. Wild guess, but most likely centuries old but younger than an oni. Your average oni has a life span of six japanese eras. 2000 might be acceptable.

Sukuna:  It is said that an inchling was part of creating the Japanese Islands along with Ōnamuji. Yeah, she is missing out a canon needle. She maybe a millennium or a house wife years old.

 Raiko: If we're counting the old canon drum, she'd be crossing the centuries or half of century and would become as old as Patchouli. If not, I don't either, What if that doesn't count? Well, give her the decade pass.

Benben and Yatsuhashi: New yokais at the time of DDC and Ben 10 is older than Yuto Yatasuhashi although they aren't blood related just became sentient at the same time. Same signature as Raiko decade or 5 decade. Your move.

=============================================================================================================

LoL LoLK LoL 

=============================================================================================================

Someone shoot down the suns and the canonballs are lost in the process.

Seiren & Ringo: If we're talking about war, there're two of 'em: Genso-Lunar War which was one thousand years ago and Lunar War which I think is only a few decades ago. I'll bet on the second war making them as old as Reisen or perhaps younger. Those two I think roughly have 2-4 age gap.

Doremy not so sweet: She is a baka baku whom originates in Chinese folklore and was familiar in Japan as early as the Muromachi period (14th-15th century). If I have take this as reference, she would be over 600. 

Sagume: She may be based in part on Ame-no-Sagume, an earthly Shinto goddess that “instigated” heavenly messenger Ame-no-Wakahiko into rebelling. Did I go too deep eh? She would be on par with Suwako and Eirin.

 Clownpiece: A hell fairy and a lampad? Take this century pass and welcome to the playground of "Canonball Carnival". (Don't forget fairy are also as old as the nature) 

Junko: How many sources have I searched upon? Hou Yi became the leader of the Xia Dynasty, he later caused the death of her son, Bó Fēng meaning Junko was alive during the Xia Dynasty and possibly before. Finally, the prediction will be accurate once more since the Xia Dynasty was 2070-1600 BCE thus, making her 4000 years old mama.

Hectia: Based on a greek figure, Now back to Hou Yi (also known as Shen Y), he shot down the Nine Sunbirds. Because of this occurrence, Apollo was shot down, darkening the hells Hecatia was overseeing. This points to one thing, she was alive during the Xia Dynasty and even before like Junko making her over 4000 years old.

=============================================================================================================

HSiFS the no canon age for you

=============================================================================================================

My tooth hurt when writing this.

Eternity Larva: No canon cold for you. My Okina speculation suggests that Eternity may have been inspired by the story of the Tokoyo god. If you this according to Nihon Shoki (The Chronicles of Japan) she would be set in the 7th century making her the same caliber as our contestants above.

Nemuno: A yamanaba, now this might be cannoning, I'll put her in the centuries group.

Aunn: Statue of guardian dog: Goryeo (an ancient Korean dynasty). So, you want to go back a millennium to the past?

Narumi: She is based on the hatted Jizo statue, too many number to count from. If we're talking about her recently after the incident, she decades old.

Mai and Satono: Okina does replace the old dancers with the new one every once in a while. Decades or centuries?

Okina: Older than Gensokyo itself and so she joins with Yukari.

=============================================================================================================

Manga Characters

=============================================================================================================

I'm getting more tired.

The Three faries: Lunar, Sunny, Star: I give them the verdict of being younger than Cirno. 

Reisen 2: Younger than the moon rabbits in my eyes.

Rinnosuke: Un-known but he's a few decades old.

Watatsukis: Toyo & Yoro: Both of them are at least 1500 years old.

Kasen: Joins Okina and Yukari for smash. Yeah, older than Gensokyo.

Kosuzu: Younger than Marisa/Reimu/Akkyu. She might be starting her adulthood soon ~17-19.

=============================================================================================================

CD Characters that found the cannon fuse

=============================================================================================================

Whew, no more cannon balls for now.

Maribel: around Sanae age. 

Renko: Yeah, her too.

Akyuu: 27 right now. (stated by Von above) 1,200 with past lives included.

=============================================================================================================

Spinoff Characters likes to spin with Hina

=============================================================================================================

Five waves of storms flushing out the cannonball.

Iku: The messenger herself (Oarfish). She's missing a canon report to the Dragon Palace. Tons of thousands of years old maybe over than that.

Tenshi: Aren't Celestials supposed to have a very very long life span. I've lost the canon count right of now. 5-7 digits, give or take.

Hatate: I'll place my bet, she's younger than Aya.

Yorigami sisters: Joon & Shinon: If we track down the gods, they might be around at the start of the canon land. 4 damm digits or even higher. Joon is younger than Shinon of course.

Suika: let's put her right next to Yuugi and make her a bit older maybe?

KoKoro: I've been losing the cannonballs a lot. Wait, she has one and it's called over 1300 years old.

Sumireko: She's 15-16 as of Urban Legend in Limbo. She is most likely in 19-20 right now.

=============================================================================================================

Dispencer down!! Pardner, Gou don't think it can go on any longer for tonight, after looking back and forth from the wikis.

I promised ya: I'll covered the last two games including one of my favourite "yuuma toutetsu". For now I'm out of breath and going have a long comfortable sleep. Don't mind me, the enginner is the enginsleeper.